r/PublicFreakout • u/ImYourRealDadHey • Jan 24 '23

2 lady’s flipping a guys car after he burnt the Quran Repost 😔

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8.0k

u/pellebeez Jan 25 '23

It’s Norway btw.

437

u/Bodyfluids_dealer Jan 25 '23 edited Jan 25 '23

Imagine the the level of commitment to a point you can risk injury or death to yourself to fight for a belief you have no proof of.

198

u/oskich Jan 25 '23

Indoctrinated from birth, this is why dictators love to set up organizations like Hitlerjugend or Pioneers, and lately Russia's Nashi...

16

u/RegisterOk9743 Jan 25 '23

Yep. People trained to believe something without any proof are the perfect political tool for propaganda and manipulation.

4

u/AyeOnThePie Jan 25 '23

Anti-fascist

Putanism

Uhhh

7

u/pm0me0yiff Jan 25 '23

'Fascist' has a different meaning in Russia. There, it's pretty much synonymous with 'enemy of Russia'.

2

u/Obstinateobfuscator Jan 25 '23

People still don't get this.

4

u/Exhonor Jan 25 '23

It's ironic you're saying this when the guy who burned the book is a supporter of a far-right extremist organisation.

3

u/Bodyfluids_dealer Jan 25 '23

He’s just an asshole. He’s doing it because he knows it’ll drive them up the wall.

0

u/oskich Jan 25 '23

Well, it works the same way there...

1

u/Valthek Jan 25 '23

As we've recently seen in Mariupol, it's perfectly possible for one group of extreme right-wingers to fight and kill another group of extreme right-wingers. In fact, this tends to happen quite often when wars break out. The right-wing nationalistic supporters of a given regime are usually the most fervent supporters of any kind of war that expands a regime's power and the right-wing nationalist citizens of the nation being attacked are usually the first to defend their motherland.

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u/DJCaldow Jan 25 '23

Risking their own lives is one thing, they put every other person on that road at risk and they belong in jail. Whether they believed they had good reason or not is irrelevant, they chased this person down to harm him. That can't be tolerated.

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u/evangelionmann Jan 25 '23 edited Jan 25 '23

both parties belong in jail. they put others in serious danger chasing him down. he put everyone in serious danger intentionally trying to rile up a crowd like that.

Edit: so, I guess people don't know what Inciting Violence means then. cool. yeah that makes sense.

2

u/Its-AIiens Jan 25 '23

So we should just let mob rule dictate what we can do?

No thanks lol

1

u/fun__friday Jan 25 '23

I’m sure the poster above you also thinks we should reinstate laws against blasphemy because you must not purposefully rile up christians.

0

u/evangelionmann Jan 25 '23

no actually, I was more thinking about laws against Inciting Violence..... which still are in use. hell, "Fighting Words" laws are still in use right now too, tho those ones are... outdated.

0

u/fun__friday Jan 25 '23

How do laws against blasphemy not fall into your category? Take the naked protestor simulating an abortion on an altar. She went to a church and did her act with the explicit purpose of pissing people off. With your logic she should be charged as well. Or does that not count because no mob violence ensued?

1

u/evangelionmann Jan 25 '23

it doesnt count, yes because no mob violence ensued, but also because what that woman did could not be considered Inciting Violence.

Inciting Violence does not include blasphemy laws, it is specifically limited to speech or actions that NATURALLY would lead others to commit criminal acts. indecent exposure doesn't qualify there, and the laws for Inciting Violence do specifically state that you can only be charged with that if your words or actions actually did end up causing crimes to be committed (which means there is no hypothetical that your words MIGHT have caused it... they did... it happened).

in the video above, that guy went to a religious protest, and burned their holy book in front of them... can you HONESTKY tell me that you dont think someone committing some crime in response to that wasn't inevitable and a direct result of his actions?

0

u/fun__friday Jan 25 '23

Got it. If you don’t want people to be able to shit on your religion (or your beliefs in general), you just have to use violence. Normally violence would be illegal, but the courts will be understanding because you did it for a righteous cause. The woman went to one of their sacred places and defaced the altar. It’s literally the same thing. But sure we can claim it was just indecent exposure, and in this dude’s case it was just burning paper (which causes CO2 emission, but otherwise it’s not illegal).

1

u/evangelionmann Jan 25 '23 edited Jan 25 '23

once again, not what I said, and you still don't understand how the Incitement law works. remember in my first comment how I said "they should all be jailed"? what part of that makes you think that I think the violence is acceptable? it isn't, and the courts won't be understanding. that would be dumb.

no its not the same thing.

I'm not going to reply to you again if you're going to keep Strawman-ing.

ETA: fun fact... you keep trying to defend the nazi that burned the Quran? this happened in Norway. Norway has Hate Speech laws which, after reading through them, his actions would be in violation of... so.. guess what? no matter what you think, I was still right and he should still be jailed, right alongside the women who flipped his car... because all of them broke the law. not just one party or the other... all of them.

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u/evangelionmann Jan 25 '23

that's not even close to what I said. I said He was TRYING to get them mad. you know what Inciting Violence is? that's something that's illegal here in the USA.

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u/bukzbukzbukz Jan 25 '23

Yeah honestly the response is weird. The guys are shit for setting things on fire in public, but they're really just burning their own possessions. It shouldn't matter to anyone else besides being a health hazard and littering.

4

u/BoingoBongoVader222 Jan 25 '23

Imagine you get out of a middle eastern theocracy that’s in the middle of a civil war where people around you are being killed every day and make it to a social democracy that’s offering you free healthcare and education.

And you get yourself deported violently attacking a guy who burned a fucking book. These people will never learn

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u/jsm1095 Jan 25 '23

They only offer the healthcare if you have been there for a while, you can’t just move there and get it. And the shitty thing is people think racism is bad in the US, but in many of the EU countries the populations are wayyyy more homogenous so mainly whites and it leads to a lot of racism and discrimination. Hence what you are seeing here.

1

u/BoingoBongoVader222 Jan 26 '23

That’s definitely not what we’re seeing here. What we’re seeing here is religious extremism

1

u/jsm1095 Jan 26 '23

Well it’s racism on one side and extremism on the other maybe? I doubt the guys burning the book were too into religious extremism but it’s def possible

1

u/BoingoBongoVader222 Jan 28 '23

It’s not racist to dislike religious extremists

6

u/Crunkbutter Jan 25 '23

Shit, they're not even fighting for a belief here. These chicks are freaking out over a mass-produced copy of open-source material.

1

u/Dilest Jan 31 '23

Isn't burning the correct way of disposing of the text according to Islam anyway?

6

u/redandwhitebear Jan 25 '23

Religion is not just belief though. It’s an entire identity, community, way of life.

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u/ArOnodrim Jan 25 '23

And should be eliminated quickly because it is fake.

4

u/redandwhitebear Jan 25 '23

Yeah well trying to “eliminate” entire identities and communities leads to peace….NOT

Good luck trying to eliminate 1+ billion Muslims though. 93% of people in the world are religious.

17

u/ArOnodrim Jan 25 '23

The young are not. Education destroys ignorance.

6

u/RegisterOk9743 Jan 25 '23

Education destroys ignorance.

I'd even argue that's the entire point!

7

u/ArOnodrim Jan 25 '23

It's why conservatives promote ignorance. It's easy to control people who don't think critically.

1

u/Its-AIiens Jan 25 '23

99% of redditors don't think critically and are the biggest idiots I've ever seen. You've no business even talking about conservatives.

2

u/ArOnodrim Jan 25 '23

Ah, did the bubble boy try and leave the bubble?

5

u/redandwhitebear Jan 25 '23

Education doesn't magically convert everyone into atheists though. All in all, if your family is religious, you are very likely to be religious, even if you're educated. Furthermore, atheists (who tend to be educated) don't have enough children. Population projections show that by 2050, the proportion of non-religious people relative to global population will actually decline. Religion is literally a more successful evolutionary strategy than non-religion.

1

u/gunfell Jan 25 '23

Yeah over the longterm the world will likely be religiously radica,l and hyper pronatal. Hopefully something changes

7

u/Guilty-Speaker7044 Jan 25 '23

Eliminate through education and de-brainwashing, not like concentration camps

-1

u/redandwhitebear Jan 25 '23

Ah, just like the Chinese are doing, right?

-5

u/Eryb Jan 25 '23

Suuure, just re-education camps right wink wink.

How about people just stop hating, everyone acting like Muslims are all evil in this thread.

6

u/Guilty-Speaker7044 Jan 25 '23

Religion served its purpose in history but it’s obsolete now. Time to move forward.

-5

u/TheCreedsAssassin Jan 25 '23

Fr its crazy how rabid against religion reddit is when almosg everyone a redditor meets in person is probably a decent well adjusted person who still identifies with some type of faith

0

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '23

[deleted]

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u/nonutnovember6996 Jan 25 '23

yeah man fuck christianity

0

u/Dumbledorfie Jan 25 '23

Haven't heard of many death threats in the Nordics against people drawing caricatures of Jesus

1

u/jsm1095 Jan 25 '23

Loll “eliminate the culture”…. That is literally a definition of genocide dude. You don’t have to kill the people themselves but forcing away from a culture is technically genocide. U/ArOnodrim, should we like send them all in a hiking trip to get away from the culture? If they cry on the way we can even call it Trail of Tears Pt. 2!

/s in case people are stupid

1

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '23 edited 15d ago

[deleted]

1

u/ArOnodrim Jan 25 '23

Nazis? 80 years ago? How old are you? Russia was better as an atheist country.

1

u/jsm1095 Jan 25 '23

The US tried a few hundred years ago, turned out bad for the natives too….

7

u/Fanfics Jan 25 '23

yeah see you're getting at the problem right there.

0

u/Darth_JarJar300 Jan 25 '23

Which is why it's a problem. Because in reality it is just an idea, just like communism is an idea, and vegetarianism is an idea.

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u/redandwhitebear Jan 25 '23

Well that's not true, isn't it? Islam, regardless of whether its theological claims are correct or not, is a living religion with a large number of people who order their lives and communities according to its ideas, just as many people order their lives according to vegetarianism, Hinduism, Christianity, secular humanism, or upholding human rights and democracy. At some level everything, including what you said, is "just an idea".

Most people also don't have "proofs" for their beliefs - do you have "proof" that universal human rights exist? If you ask, most people defend beliefs like human rights mainly because a bunch of people around them believe it and think it monstrous to believe otherwise.

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u/Darth_JarJar300 Jan 25 '23

Putting aside the obvious ridiculousness in comparing something abstract and philosophical like "universal human rights" with something specific and concrete like "the Quran is direct revelation from Allah" for a moment, no there is no proof that universal human rights exist. We are animals.

But what separates us from other animals is the ability to think, and so we've mostly collectively agreed to act as if they do exist and offer them to people. But of course it's entirely a human construct. The majority of us see value in treating people humanely and affording them basic dignity and respect.

But that is no way comparable to Jesus and the Resurrection. Either that happened and everybody who is not a Christian is factually wrong, or it didn't happen and everybody who is a Christian is factually wrong. It's not a matter of values when it is making hard claims about world history.

None of the extra community based shit you can get in church, many of which can be very beneficial, requires you to believe in nonsense and refuse to challenge yourself on it.

3

u/redandwhitebear Jan 25 '23

Putting aside the obvious ridiculousness in comparing something abstract and philosophical like "universal human rights" with something specific and concrete like "the Quran is direct revelation from Allah" for a moment, no there is no proof that universal human rights exist.

I submit that universal human rights is no more or less abstract than theological claims. It consists of very tangible claims, such as that everyone has the right to life, liberty and security, that slavery is forbidden, and so on.

But of course it's entirely a human construct. The majority of us see value in treating people humanely and affording them basic dignity and respect.

I think "see value" is doing a lot of work here. Just as universal human rights is a human construct, why can't the 1 billion+ Muslims around the world also have their own common human constructs, such as that they "see value" in treating a Quran as respectfully as you would treat a person, and have a strong reaction against those who don't share the same values? Just as you would have a strong reaction against those who don't share the value of affording people basic dignity and respect.

4

u/daneview Jan 25 '23

But also imagine the level of commitment required to burn the one book you don't burn in front of its believers and think you're not gonna get consequences from that. ESH

0

u/Bodyfluids_dealer Jan 25 '23

What does it even mean that you burned it. It’s a book, a bunch of papers glued together. It doesn’t change the content and there millions of copies around the world. How does that affect what you believe. It’s the same as the nut jobs who go crazy about a flag, a piece of cloth; it means something but it doesn’t mean I’m about to go fight with a lunatic who’s burning it to try to agitate me. If you pay no attention to them they’ll tire themselves out and leave disappointed.

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u/daneview Jan 25 '23

But you and I see no particular importance in that book, or that flag. To some people, they hold that book/flag in the same importance as a family member, maybe more so when it comes to the words of an actual diety.

Plenty of religious people have sacrificed their own lives for their religion, either in wars, but more relevantly in martyrdom acts.

It might seem mental to non believers, but that's because we literally can't comprehend in believing in something in that way.

Anyone saying "it's only a book, what's the problem" just isn't being empathetic to where the believers are coming from.

(I'll jump in here and say I'm not saying we should empathise with religious nutters, but on the flip side we shouldn't write off religious 'rules' as silly old ideas with no weight)

0

u/danny12beje Jan 25 '23

Applies to both

-33

u/HamburgerEarmuff Jan 25 '23

I have no "proof" that it's wrong to murder or rape, but I would risk injury or death to stop a murder or rape. There's nothing wrong in believing in something that you cannot conclusively demonstrate is true.

The real question doesn't have anything to do with beliefs or "proof". It has to do with ethics and law.

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u/ArOnodrim Jan 25 '23

Faith is literally the belief without evidence, faith is irrational. Their is evidence that rape and murder are wrongs.

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u/HamburgerEarmuff Jan 25 '23

There is no evidence that can corroborate or disprove the claim that murder and rape or wrong. Rather, it is a moral axiom.

You posit that belief in something without evidence is faith.

And you posit that faith is irrational.

Therefore, if we accept your premise as true, we must conclude that it is irrational to believe that murder and rape are wrong.

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u/Junithorn Jan 25 '23 edited Jan 25 '23

I have evidence that murder and rape cause harm. I have empathy for other intelligent beings that can experience that harm. Secular morality is based on reality. Your laughable morality is based on fables from bronze age ignorant men.

You're a toddler of moral theory, go do some research before embarrassing yourself further.

3

u/ArOnodrim Jan 25 '23

Rape, murder, theft, are wrongs. Nouns not adjectives. You must live in a bubble, huh.

0

u/HamburgerEarmuff Jan 26 '23

You might believe there wrong. However, you cannot prove that they're wrong nor can you disprove that it's not wrong to rape and murder.

Therefore, by your own premise, your beliefs are irrational.

Also, though you claim that, "their sic is evidence that rape and murder are wrongs sic," you haven't provided any.

1

u/ArOnodrim Jan 26 '23

You have been sniffing your own farts too long. Your brain is rotting, may want to get checked for tumor.

3

u/Intelligent_Bad6942 Jan 25 '23

Wrong with respect to what?

If you care about well being, murder and rape are wrong. These are not hard questions.

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u/HamburgerEarmuff Jan 26 '23

This is a tautology and therefore logically invalid.

1

u/Intelligent_Bad6942 Jan 26 '23

No, it's not. You don't know what a tautology is.

But the fact that you think "well being" is synonymous with "not being raped and murdered" proves my point that these things are not that hard to answer.

1

u/HamburgerEarmuff Jan 26 '23

I'd be interested in having a legitimate debate, but since your entire argument is ad hominem and strawmanning, I think it's best to terminate this discussion as it seems that you're either unwilling or unable to offer a logically-valid argument.

1

u/Intelligent_Bad6942 Jan 26 '23

You don't know what ad hominem or strawmen are either. I didn't call you names, or misrepresented what you said - fucking quote me lol.

I don't know why you only care about validity, and forget to mention soundness. Or is that also in the "you don't know about it" category? 🙃

Do you care about the well being of conscious creatures?

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u/CUM-OMELETTE Jan 25 '23

This is a really poorly-formed argument

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u/starkravingsober Jan 25 '23

Seriously wtf

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u/Bodyfluids_dealer Jan 25 '23

You have no proof murder or rape is wrong? Does pain physical/emotional or loss of life mean anything to you?

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u/HamburgerEarmuff Jan 25 '23

​

This is argumentum ad passiones.

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u/CentiPetra Jan 25 '23 edited Jan 25 '23

What you actually said: "Nobody can actually prove rape and murder are wrong."

What you think you said: .....?????....i actually have no fucking clue what you think you said bro...

Edit: I actually have no idea why I actually used the word actually so many times....i clearly have a problem

1

u/Darth_JarJar300 Jan 25 '23

If there's nothing wrong with believing in something you cannot conclusively demonstrate is true, then why aren't religious people applying the same internal process everywhere?

If you're a practicioner of Islam then you know what's wrong with believing in something you cannot conclusively demonstrate, because you don't believe in any other religions just this one.

1

u/HamburgerEarmuff Jan 26 '23

There are billions of, "religious people". They all have vastly different beliefs. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, but it seems to be either a strawman, a false premise, or a hasty generalization.

1

u/Darth_JarJar300 Jan 26 '23

The point I'm trying to make is that even religious people know faith is bullshit because they limit it to the one specific religion they've been indoctrinated with.

1

u/HamburgerEarmuff Jan 26 '23

That's a false dilemma logical fallacy.

Not all religious beliefs are exclusionary. For instance, Jews, Christians, and Muslims, believe, as a tenant of faith, that murder and rape are immoral. Jews don't believe that Muslims are wrong for believing that murder is wrong. Sikhs believe that there are many paths to God, and don't teach to disbelieve in other religions. Jews believe that anyone who follows the seven Noahide laws, regardless of religion, is a righteous person assured are place in Olam Ha-Ba.

So your argument relies on the precept that all religious beliefs are mutually exclusive, which can be disproven by counterexample.

1

u/Darth_JarJar300 Jan 26 '23 edited Jan 26 '23

Christians say that Jesus is the Messiah. Jews say he is not.

When two things contradict each other at least 1 of them is not correct. Jews have faith in the God of Abraham, but don't apply it to Jesus because they know faith is bullshit.

1

u/HamburgerEarmuff Jan 26 '23

Some atheists believe that murder and rape are wrong. Some atheists believe that murder and rape are morally acceptable. Atheism isn't disproven by atheists coming to different conclusions about unfalsifiable questions such as, is it immoral to allow the induced abortion of an 18 week old fetus, anymore than theism is disproven by theists coming to different conclusions about unfalsifiable questions like, is Jesus the Messiah.

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u/Darth_JarJar300 Jan 27 '23

Atheism isn't proven or disproven at all. The English prefix a- simply means without.

It's not an unfalsifiable question either. Either he came back from the dead after 3 days or he didn't. It's black and white, yes or no.

1

u/HamburgerEarmuff Jan 27 '23

I mean, by that reasoning, the English definition of "plane" means an infinite, two dimensional surface and the English definition of "air" means the atmospheric gas present on the Earth's surface, so an airplane must be the theoretical construct of an infinite plane applies through the Earth's atmosphere.

But English doesn't work that way. Words don't derive their meaning solely by combining the meaning of their constituent parts. They derive their meaning through usage. That's why we now refer to astrologers as astronomers and astronomy as astrometry.

The reason that agnostic and atheist are both common words is because they have different common usages, with atheist referring to those who disbelieve in God and agnostics to those who are agnostic toward God.

And, just FYI, the prefix a is not English. It's Latin. And it means, before or away from, not against. Contra is the Latin prefix used in English for against.

And the term atheist actually comes from the Greek word αθεος, which means without-god, with the α being Greek for without, and the θεος meaning God. A better translation into modern English might be: godless.

Also, I'm not sure why you're bringing up some Christian's belief in Yeshua's literal resurrection, as it's a non sequitur. The argument never was that some specific beliefs put forward by some particular followers of a particular religion weren't falsifiable, although I would say, for all practical purposes, there would be no way to test whether a particular event that happened in the past actually happened, unless we know that it must leave some measurable proof. There's plenty in science that would fall into the same unfalsifiable category as Yeshua's literal resurrection, such as postulations and proofs written about what led to the Big Bang.

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u/Its-AIiens Jan 25 '23

There's nothing wrong in believing in something that you cannot conclusively demonstrate is true.

See, here's the problem. Yes, there is something wrong with that.

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u/HamburgerEarmuff Jan 26 '23

I cannot conclusively demonstrate that rape and murder are morally wrong, as they are moral axioms which cannot be objectively demonstrated to be true or false, through empirical induction.

If we accept your premise to be true, then we must conclude that there is something wrong with believing that rape and murder are wrong.

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u/InstanceWild Jan 25 '23

Can you imagine disrespecting someone’s belief though? Bet they won’t be burning anymore religious books 🤷🏻‍♂️

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u/WitchesDew Jan 25 '23

Pretty sure it's this guy's whole shtick. He's purposely trying to rile up the immigrant population and those women took the bait. Not a good look for either side. 🤷🏻‍♀️

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u/InstanceWild Jan 25 '23

Definitely isn’t, but if you’re going after someone’s core beliefs you best be ready to withstand the consequences. Just like I’m sure the women will have to face their consequences. To some religion is all they have to live for.

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '23

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u/InstanceWild Jan 25 '23

You shouldn’t degrade anyone’s belief. Even imagining doing so just proves how much a piece of shit human you really are. Whether you’re Muslim, Christian or atheist. People need to learn to stfu and pushing their belief onto others. That includes disrespecting someone’s belief system.

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u/QueefingTheNightAway Jan 25 '23

This is such a stupid and juvenile take. Belief systems are not inherently deserving of respect.

0

u/InstanceWild Jan 26 '23

Wait a minute so all of a sudden you should respect peoples opinion and beliefs on atheism, transsexualism, homosexuality etc but respecting peoples religious beliefs is where the line is crossed? 🤣 that makes TOTAL sense.

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '23

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u/InstanceWild Jan 26 '23

So wait you’re okay with protecting atheism and it’s belief system but not others belief system? 🤣 you sound very ignorant. Let people live their lives is the moral of the story. You seem like to much of a tool to understand that.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '23

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u/InstanceWild Jan 26 '23

You seem to love fascists 🤣 you aren’t even using it in proper context. Go open up a dictionary. Atheism is a form of belief system due to it being impossible to prove much like any and every religion along with scientific theories. Everything is a belief. But go off fascist 😂 I didn’t know someone was forcing you practice a religion you must be from one of those communist states huh

1

u/Gloria_Stits Jan 25 '23

Do you think the ink on the pages of the Quran is safe to smoke? I'm all out of blunt wraps and it's time to wake and bake.

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u/InstanceWild Jan 26 '23

Take that up with someone’s who’s Muslim lol. Is that somehow supposed to offend me? Good try though, seems like you’re more of a paint sniffer 😂🤷🏻‍♂️

1

u/Its-AIiens Jan 25 '23

Madness, these people are animals. We shouldn't allow them to dictate anything that happens in society or pay them any attention.