r/germany • u/FrigginMasshole • Feb 06 '23
Should I call myself German to other Germans? Question
Hello, bit of a weird question but here it goes. I’m half American and German, my father was born a German citizen and left as a child when my grandparents came to the US. Since my father was a dual citizen at the time of my birth, I am German by descent and a dual citizen myself. However, I have never been to Germany nor do I speak German. Would other Germans think it’d be weird or would I look stupid if I called myself German?
Edit: if anyone wants to cross post this to r/ subredditdrama or r/shitamericanssay you have full permission to do so from me.
555
u/kuldan5853 Feb 06 '23
You are an American with German citizenship & German descent. But you are 100% American born and raised. (the "and raised" part is the important one).
28
Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23
[deleted]
19
u/cakeGirlLovesBabies Feb 06 '23
I'm in the naturalisation process and if approved I'll just call myself a German citizen after. I feel that calling myself German will seem forced even to myself.
17
u/kuldan5853 Feb 06 '23
That's the distinction that is important here - German citizen? Yes. German? No.
6
u/yung_avocado bvb Feb 06 '23
To me, if you’re a citizen that means you’re legally German. Maybe not ethnically German, but if you’re a citizen you can call yourself German imo.
3
u/AudeDeficere Feb 07 '23 edited 29d ago
Thing is, there are usually three big kinds of definitions. The legal definitions, the scientific definitions and the common definitions. There can be an overlap, some definitions are sub categories etc. - the point is that most people have a common definition about what being German means which AT LEAST includes: citizenship & language. To some, it can even go as far as maintaining a level of residency, cultural aspects, political convictions etc.
The core argument I am making is one that is echoing the sentiment of many others: calling someone German or someone calling themselves German doesn’t make them so in the eyes of the vast majority.
For example: the "Spätaussiedler" were legally simply classified as German by the state. But for the public and consequently the public discourse, they usually remained "Russlanddeutsche" - a distinct, separate category.
Imo. it is imperative for good definitions to acknowledge not only the established scientific of legal defining but also the common consensus.
As a consequence, the OP can of course call themselves German - but for the vast majority of Germans, he is not a part of the invisible "national identity" because the OP simply lacks the most fundamental ability of interacting with "his own". He is not able to formulate his thoughts, can simply not interact with the broad idea that is the German people in any conversational manner unless they happen to speak his language.
For most, he a foreigner who happens to be in possession of a German passport and has German ancestors. And consequently, it would probably be wise for him to AT LEAST learn the language since being able to speak, to be heard and to understand and be understood is fundamental to forming / belonging to any kind identity in an utterly fundamental manner.
2
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 07 '23
I’m going to at least make an effort to learn the language. I guess if I hold citizenship to a country I should at least attempt to learn the language
→ More replies (3)64
u/TheOneAndOnlyPriate Nordrhein-Westfalen Feb 06 '23
I would argue it is about sharing a mindset that fits into the spectrum of mindsets in german society, adhering to a shared sense of what is right and wrong, how to deal with religion publicly vs privately and yes the 2 technicalities of having citizenship and being able communicating in german.
How and where you have been raised is imo irrelevant, but since there is no real official consensus of when someone is german many only gibe 1st descendants the chance to be german i guess.
For all i care, if you speak german, hold official citizenship, share a mindset fitting to our constitutional values and don't need to ask anyone about Ruhezeiten, streupflicht, Mülltrennung or Pfandflaschen you are german with immigration background.
32
u/NowoTone Feb 06 '23
I think so. My wife is British and she speaks German fluently, but she lacks the whole history of growing up here, going to a German school etc. Same with my kids. They have British passports, speak English fluently and accent free* thanks to their mum and have been going to the UK regularly since they were babies. And yet they themselves notice now, how different they are from their cousins, because they have been growing up here and not in the UK. As my older one said: I'm British, but not really English.
At the end of the day, it is important how you feel!
Willkommen in Deiner neuen Heimat, ich hoffe Du findest hier das was Du suchst!
21
u/Dull-Investigator-17 Feb 06 '23
To some people it is important. Personally, I think if you have German citizenship, you're German, that's the law. If you come to Germany as an immigrant, become part of our society, speak the language (even if it's not perfect) etc, then I'm happy to can you German even without citizenship. But as somebody who is visibly Asian, you'll also find plenty of people who wouldn't even call you German if your family had lived here for decades and you'd been born here.
5
u/ExecWarlock Feb 06 '23
I think it's hard to really define when one should call themself "German".
To me, it has nothing to do with heritage, having a citizenship or similar, but more whether you feel yourself being a German. Lived and love the lifestyle, have visited a few cities across the country, know more that BMW and Oktoberfest, and so on. That includes at least speaking the language on conversation level, having lived here for a good amount of time, etc.
People who say they are "German" solely because one parent was born here give the same vibes as US-Americans claiming they are Scandinavian, Native Americans, African or similar because they are 16% something-something great-grandparents.
22
u/Ballerheiko Feb 06 '23
Some backwards thinking Germans will never see you as Germans, even 3rd generation germans descending from the Turkish immigrants from the 60's still struggle with that. But almost every normal thinking German will welcome you into our culture as long as you make an effort to learn the lenguage and stand behind the Grundgesetz. Bonus points if you get into sport clubs or do volunteer stuff like fire fighting.
23
u/kuldan5853 Feb 06 '23
Also, and I want to stress this: Whether I see you as "German" or a "well integrated immigrant" is in no way a judgement of "quality" of you as a human being - it just adjusts my own expectations regarding things like shared experiences and upbringing. (And I personally also only apply it to direct immigrants - their kids are German, full stop).
On the flipside, I am German born and raised - and I could never see myself as anything else, even if I'd been living in e.g. the US for decades. I'd still be a German living in the US, not "American".
→ More replies (3)20
u/HarrytheHappyAnt Feb 06 '23
The thing is, a lot of these 3rd generation immigrants are not german. Their ancestors are turkish expats living in Germany. And they are the descendants of these expats. They go to german schools and speak german in public to germans, but they speak turkish at home/with their peers and live in their own cultural spheres. A huge amount of these expats were integrated into the german society, but never assimilated themselves to the culture and values. I wouldn’t call someone who speaks turkish or any other language at home or with his peers a german.
There is nothing negative or positive about it. It’s a strictly neutral viewpoint.
There is also the difference of 'german by law' or 'german by culture'. OP in this case is german by law, but definitely not german by culture.
0
u/Ballerheiko Feb 06 '23
well, i am german as can be, my familytree is Potatos as far as our genealogy has been followed it by my grandparents, but i never assimilated myself to german culture or values.
does this make me german by law or culture?
you are one of those people i described in the first part of my first post.
no decent human being would require Assimilation as an requirement to be part of a culture.
8
u/HarrytheHappyAnt Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23
Assimilation is the definition of becoming part of a culture.
Furthermore you cannot assimilate yourself to something when you were already a part of it.
But good thing you go to being insulting straight away you decent human being.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (1)1
u/Cinderpath Feb 07 '23 edited Feb 07 '23
You never consider somebody that is bi-lingual, living in Germany, speaks German, but speaks Turkish or another language at home to not be German? Am I reading that correctly?
If so that is one of the most narrow-minded, boarding on being a redneck thing I’ve read in a long time? And far from neutral at that? I don’t know where to even begin….other than we live in a global world now.
3
u/Fantastic_Length9247 Feb 07 '23
I have to say, i grew up in Wiesbaden (capital of hesse) and we have a whole district called "Klein-Istanbul" because that's where the 3rd generation turk-germans live who created their own culture... Not really turkish, but not german in any ways. Even turkish friends coming from turkey say they behave badly and are to narrow minded to accept being part of the german culture.
I love diversity, free thinking and people who live free and do what they want, but if you hear people talking (I understand a bit turkish and spoken arabic) and telling each other how they hate germany and that they would love to live in turkey but never actually lived there... I would rather like to see an american saying he/she/they are "german" willingly because they love our culture, food and bautiful countrysides!
Just my opinion 🤷🏼♂️
3
Feb 06 '23
[deleted]
7
u/Significant-Trash632 Feb 06 '23
As a US citizen living in Germany, what you have is gold. Don't underestimate its value. I would without hesitation give up my US citizenship to have a German one.
3
u/Kaiser_Gagius Baden-Württemberg (Ausländer) Feb 06 '23
A friend was born in India. Yet he hails from a German family and was raised in Germany. He is German.
So yes, your upbringing is the important bit, not the rest of the details, having a Polish parent doesn't make you Polish but if you were raised in Poland it doesn't matter if you were born in Bangladesh from a German mother and a Japanese father.
3
u/HighTower_55 Feb 07 '23
I'm German, grew up in the US, went back to live there twice later on in life, lived in the Middle East for 5 years. I've lived and worked with all kinds of people in my life.
The "raised" part isn't important to me. It's great to hear someone like you really want to become a German, embrace our values and want to integrate into our society. If you went through the process of becoming a German citizen, you should call yourself German. That you didn't grow up here doesn't matter.
A friend of mine is from the UK. He moved to Germany more than 10 years ago, married a German, they have 3 kids together. Eventually he became a German citizen. He sent me a picture of his German ID card the day he got it.
I sent him a text back "Hey buddy, congrats! Welcome to the tribe. We can use all the good people we can get :-)"Feel free to send me a DM if you have any questions, need help or feel like you could use input from a German.
Good luck on your journey, I wish you all the best.
7
u/HarrytheHappyAnt Feb 06 '23
the raised part and cultural heritage part is imo what makes someone part of that culture and therefore 'american' or 'german'.
Also how you deal with the culture in that country. Do you embrace the culture and assimilate, or do you, even when living in germany(just the example), still conform to your old culture and values, for example speak your old language at home? If that’s the case you would be (in your case) a chinese living in germany. Being 'German' or'American' or even 'Chinese' is more about the cultures and values than about formalities like passport and citizenship.
5
u/CuzImTry Feb 06 '23
I Definetly think you can call yourself a german, i, as a german with chinese and vietnamese roots think of myself as a half german and would call my children (if i had any in the future) also more german than chinese
2
u/torpak Feb 06 '23
I'm born and raised in Germany but if you ask me, you are at least as German as myself. You chose that. I'm just German by default.
2
u/JensAusJena Feb 06 '23
Call yourself whatever you like and don't listen to the haters. Being german means nothing. If you see yourself as a german - you are one.
→ More replies (2)2
u/Faustens Feb 19 '23
I think there is a difference between being born and raised out of germany with no connection to the culture, and acquiring german citizenship, because for the latter you actually have to learn about the current culture and politics. Additionally to call yourself part of any culture you'd at least have to live there for some time, to get aquatinted with the culture and the people.
Anyone who doesn't see you as german after acquiring citizenship and naturalization is just plain racist, at least in my opinion.
→ More replies (5)-23
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 06 '23
I definitely consider myself an American although I have quite a bit of friends from all over Europe and a few from Germany so I’m not so sure how to approach it. I don’t want to look ignorant or stupid. Americans are very weird with their ancestry and such. But being an actual dual citizen it’s a bit different situation lol
55
u/Schwammosaurus_Rex Feb 06 '23
In my experience, here in Germany your ancestry doesn't matter at all and it is very much how you "feel" - which in 99% of cases is the culture you were born and raised in. This will usually stick with you for the most part of your life. After you would have lived in Germany for a long time and fully "assimilated" to customs and culture, you would then probably say "I'm German, but was born in the US".
82
u/kuldan5853 Feb 06 '23
So, to be a bit more in depth - the whole "ancestry" thing comes across as weird (at best) and downright stupid (more normal) to most Europeans, so please don't do the "I'm 1/4 German and 3/8ths Australian Shepherd" stuff.
Saying to have German/whatever ANCESTRY though is totally fine. The difference between "I am" und "I have ancestry" is very big in European perception.
As for your citizenship, legally you ARE German, but nobody would consider you German in the space of social interactions - you have not taken part in the same events as we did, you did not go to the same / similar schooling system, have not learned the same songs as a child, watched the same shows, listened to the same music... and so on.
Basically, everything that makes you "German" in the context of social interactions is missing, as your upbringing, how you were raised, and most likely also the social values you were educated with are 100% American.
14
u/TheOneAndOnlyPriate Nordrhein-Westfalen Feb 06 '23
It is not about sharing an identical or similar experience in early days of your life. I would disagree here. If you moved here in your 30s you would by that definition never be able to be considered german. The social value part is where i am 100% with you.
If i had to describe it: Having official citizenship should be a given. Other than that i would only say if you know how to live life in germany just as locals do - communicate in local language without noteworthy language barriers (accent doesn't even matter from my POV at least) - you know local german routines like when to go to ER and when to go to Hausarzt, how Pfandsystem and basic Mülltrennung works. As ridicolous and minor as these seem this is where you see if someone is here for the first time or knows what's up - know how to basically behave in traffic with the german specifics (nicht rechts überholen) etc. and similar public laws or pote tial misdemeanors in german society
Yes i am fully aware not even every german follows these definitions but fair chance everyone at least should know them. But i just wanted to point out that having seen the same TV shows, events or schoolsystem has imo nothing to to with considering someone german
15
u/kuldan5853 Feb 06 '23
Your points are also valid, but I would consider those people well integrated immigrants, but not "German".
→ More replies (6)18
u/RandomBrathahn Feb 06 '23
The question alone is kind of ignorant for germans. How can you think of yourself as german if you haven’t been there once?
→ More replies (7)7
u/resurgences NRW 🏵️ Feb 06 '23
Around 96 % of the German population don't consider people who do not speak the German language German whereas only around 25 % consider place of birth important for citizenship. I think that says it all. You need to live in Germany for extended time periods and assimilate to be considered German, it doesn't matter where your parents are from
285
u/ex1nax Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23
Many, if not most Europeans I've met who are exposed to American content, are pretty annoyed by Americans stating they are German / Italian / Irish or whatever while having no connection to the country except for some ancestry
Some even feel insulted.
93
u/Prophet_60091_ Berlin Feb 06 '23
I (American) was taking to my wife (German) the other day about this. She was watching some American TV show and the Americans in it went to Italy and tried to act like they were Italians because their family originally came from there. Understandably she thought this trope is stupid.
The best way I can explain (not condone) it is that it comes from a uniquely American feeling of cultural homelessness. The US is such a relatively young country made up of many different cultures that there is no one unifying American "Volk" with a discernable cultural heritage, traditions, or values. Yes there's superficial cultural things that are American, but the desire to identify as another established culture comes from a place of spiritual emptiness and a desire to belong. It's outwardly silly, but honestly quite sad underneath.
35
u/pieddemamouth Feb 06 '23
Actually I was discussing about this exact point the other day. How comes the americans from USA have this issue, while south americans do not ?
South americans are pretty happy with what they have built, and do not seem to have such a thing for their ancestry. For those that I have met, they can trace their ancestry a few generations back, but define themselves based on the country where they have been born and raised (like europeans).
Americans from USA have also built a large cultural foundation (music, movies, re-interpretation of key events in the year, various way of life, etc...). I do not see why they would need to think so much about their respective ancestry.
29
u/Marambio1 Feb 06 '23
South American here. Agree the whole North American issue with origins is puzzling to us. I am born and raised in South America, speak fluent German (albeit with a small accent) and also have a German passport. Unless it’s at passport control and I’m showing my German passport, when people ask me where I’m from I say my country of birth.
11
u/DufflessMoe Feb 06 '23
Add Australians and New Zealanders to the 'new countries who care less for ancestry' bucket too.
Most will know their families came from somewhere else but identify less with their culture of origin.
5
u/Butlerlog Feb 06 '23
I think the USA has become such a dominant force culturally that when they look to other western nations they see their own culture staring back, so they assume that means they don't have a culture. They do, its just so inescapable you don't notice it.
4
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 06 '23
From my perspective and many others, if you hold American citizenship you are American to us. Even if you were just born here and don’t speak English or anything, you’re still American
→ More replies (1)2
u/Korimuzel Feb 06 '23
Which is pure idiocy. I'm writing in english, I can talk to you very fluently and even make up a good american accent, thanks to a LOT of media exposure, but how can it make me american? I haven't been raised there, I've never lived there
2
Feb 06 '23 edited 10d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Korimuzel Feb 06 '23
I actually made an opposite example which is still valid
It is not about language, it is and should be about being raised in that culture and context
Let's take OP as an example: how do they perceive the second world war? Because germans have it very deep into their culture and school system, it is a mistake, a responsibility they feel in them and there's a lot of work for the mew generation in order to understand what and how happened, the way their Opas und Omas have accepted or even liked the racism of the Dritte Reich
I hardly doubt other nations may have the same thing about that war (which is basically the most famous war up to date). Same goes for the cold war, Germany was split and lots of seniles have lived through that. This is not something you inherit because you're half-german and half-golden retriever
2
u/estresado_a Feb 06 '23
As a south american, I do see the german descendants here being weirdly proud of it (not that they shouldn't, but talking about it too much I guess?).
My mom dated one and he would call himself german cause his grandpa was. He did speak german though, but it still felt kinda awkward since he brought it up a lot.
Personally, I do have some european ancestry but to me it's so far back I don't have a real connection. Yeah, we have some catalunyan dishes that were passed down and my last name is catalunyan, but other than that I have no connection whatsoever. I wouldn't call myself catalunyan-chilean or bring it up other than when I get asked about my lastname since some people find it interesting.
4
u/Kevincelt Amerikaner in Berlin 🇺🇸->🇩🇪 Feb 06 '23
We tend to view ethnicity and nationality as separate concepts. Coming from different ethnic/cultural/religious backgrounds doesn’t take away from how American someone is. There’s plenty of people who identify as ethnic Americans, over 19,000,000 people, but many other identify with one or more immigrant groups that they descend from. Your background can affect many aspects of one’s life from religion, family history, politics, language, etc., so it’s naturally it factors into who they are.
Besides that, diaspora and ethnic politics has played a huge and continuing role in the US. It all depends on which imagined community one is a part of. This can also have a big impact on economic, diplomatic, and cultural relations between countries.
7
u/brownbreadsalad Feb 06 '23
The thing is, most of you aren’t ethnically what you claim to be; I am Polish and just cruising this sub, but it annoys me to no end when Americans call themselves “Polish American” and say that’s their ethnicity, without knowing anything about it, history of our nation, our tradition, culture, language etc.
Being ethnically something means that you belong to a group of people - but how can you belong to a group of people that you have nothing in common with?
When someone says to me they are Polish American, I straight forward tell them - no, you are American; if you have nothing to do with us, why do you make yourself an emissary of our nation abroad ?
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)4
u/rotdress Feb 06 '23
One thing is that in south America, there are far more people with at least some indigenous heritage. For me it's not really a lack of "American" culture so much as the knowledge that being entirely white means coming from a legacy of indigenous genocide, and that I live on stolen land and shouldn't really be there.
8
u/creamteafortwo Feb 06 '23
That sums it up. The Americans see their heritage as almost the same as a nationality. The folks on the other end see them as deluded.
The show must have been the second season of The White Lotus. Absolutely delightful - everyone got their “fett weg”, as the Germans would say.
2
u/Kevincelt Amerikaner in Berlin 🇺🇸->🇩🇪 Feb 06 '23
We see ethnicity and nationality as separate concepts. Being from a certain ethnic, cultural, or religious background doesn’t take away from how American someone is. Many people see being American strictly in terms of nationality which doesn’t effect someone’s ethnic background. There’s plenty of people who do identify as ethnic Americans and other new world ethnicities, but a lot of other people don’t consider American an ethnicity. As an example, my friend is non-religious, only speaks English, and his family has been in the US for over 100 years, but still is proudly Jewish.
→ More replies (2)4
u/ex1nax Feb 06 '23
Yes, that's what I explained in another comment, too. And it's understandable!
It is so interesting though to see these opposites where on one side you have the sentimental-nostalgic people with their ancestry and on the other side you have AMERICA-MAGA-All-American-Americans and their greatest freedom country in the world.It's rather comic from the outside but obviously there are many layers to this whole thing and many things to consider.
In both cases as so often, it's self awareness that is lacking and while I think it's great to learn about ancestry and actual culture of your ancestry, It's way more often obnoxious tone-deaf crap like you just described with the "Italians".
Which is also interesting, given how (overly) aware Americans are of racial tropes and seeing cultural appropriation in seemingly everything.In the end it comes down to the US being a huge fuckin' country and obviously not everybody is the same :)
Love you guys, can't wait till I'm getting married in Vegas this year :D
→ More replies (26)6
u/Korimuzel Feb 06 '23
This
I'm italian, moved in germany a few years ago, and I'm sick of germans and others claiming some cultural connection to me, while insulting my culture and my language with a few totally misspelled words without meaning and context
Imagine me coming here like "I love american culture,all the fatty food and the mass shootings, damn it's awesome being an american. Long live the king!". Yeah, now you know how it feels
I am not German. I've been here for 4 years but my entire childhood and adolescence I was in southern Italy, my Family has raised me as southern italians do.
One day, I will say "I've been here for 30 years but my entire childhood and adolescence I was in southern Italy, my Family has raised me as southern italians do. Vut 30 years surely made me the man I am"
Idiot, idiot americans. Your culture defines what country you are from. And ironically enough, americans are the one who onvented the whole "I'm a quarter this and a half that", so basically, whoever tells me that shit is american to my eyes
6
u/ex1nax Feb 06 '23
Your ears must bleed from Americans looking for meatball pasta ;)
2
u/Korimuzel Feb 06 '23
No one outside of Italy can even realise how vague and inaccurately italian culture is portrayed abroad
I could make an infinite list of things. The most annoying and occuring ones are "you eat pizza very often" and "oh so you know the mafia, they're important there"
Also, special note to all the people telling me of their holidays in random regions of Italy. Holidays have no value, because you stay in a hotel or holiday house and visit places, instead of attending schools, working, using public transports daily and hating them because of all the malfunctions, cooking the tomato sauce with meat in it for a whole morning and filling the hoise with delicious smell, the incredible amount of stray dogs and cats around, the fear that a lot of people have for science and medicine, the evenings and nights spent simply walking around town with your friends occasionally drinking some cocktails, moving every night to a different near city just because "there's more movement in that new bar which just opened there, let's go where people are", the the the...
4
u/ex1nax Feb 06 '23
Oh boy, preach.
I mainly have to apologise for Hitler or listen to how great he was, along with the occasional "Sieg Heil".
As for Italy, totally understand how annoying that must be. "Visiting Europe" basically means going to Italy or Paris (as in Italy is this one place in Europe and Paris being the rest of Europe).
People don't seem to understand how vastly different European cultures are from country to country, within countries and even between cities. And it's certainly nothing you can experience in a week of vacation.
Nothing wrong with not experiencing all of that, but the lack of awareness that going to Rome or Venice for a week won't make you an expert on the whole country. Plus chances are, you won't even talk to anyone who's not in Tourism.
Germans are annoyingly great at that since every country surrounding us is catering to German tourists so not even English is necessary....3
u/Korimuzel Feb 06 '23
I agree
Also, I know those people and those comments are MOSTLY (but not all of them) well meant and well spirited, but it just never ends. Every day
I mean, I've even been told by 2 different german girls I dated, stuff like "I've never been in (insert place) with an italian before"
I'm sorry Greta, aber ich bin kein exotische Tier. And no matter how funny you are and how much I crush for you, I'm going to get mad whenever you say something like that, it's disrespecting and very naive to say
148
u/Mangobonbon Feb 06 '23
You would indeed look stupid. To Germans someone claiming to be german without knowing the language and not having lived in Germany seems absolutely weird.
8
u/resurgences NRW 🏵️ Feb 06 '23
This is statistically proven by the way, Germany has an even higher number of people who consider the language to be an important factor for national identity/citizenship than France. The political left in Germany considers German to be as important as the political right in the US considers English important.
1
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 09 '23
It’s even more weird for me having citizenship to a country that I’ve never been to or speak the language lol
107
u/sakasiru Feb 06 '23
In what situation do you feel the need to call yourself German? If you meet a German and over a few beers tell it as a fun fact that you have a German passport, too, yeah, why not, go ahead. If you walk around claiming everywhere how German you are: That would be a bit cringe.
Generally, I don't come into a lot of situations where my citizenship or even ancestry is a topic, so I don't see why that is such an important matter to clear up. If the discussion steers towards the question, okay. But especially Americans seem to collect ancestries like Pokémons and the very fact that you brag about it makes you very un-German ironically.
→ More replies (10)46
u/Wolfof4thstreet Feb 06 '23
Americans seem to collect ancestries like Pokémons
LOL this is the best description
38
u/KiviRinne Feb 06 '23
You would look "stupid" if you called yourself German. You are not born and raised in Germany and neither do you speak German.You don't celebrate our traditions and values etc. Having German ancestry and citizenship don't make you German.
You are American theough and through.
24
u/netherlink Feb 06 '23
Regular people do not really care about citizenship. While it's definitive better than being an illegal immigrant (lol), you're still not considered german in any way by people, only from a bureaucratic perspective.
"Being german" and "having german citizenship" are two different pairs of shoes.
20
u/WorkForTravel Germany Feb 06 '23
Yes it would be a bit weird especially as you don‘t speak German and never lived here. I have a similar background and I definitely am „American“ even though I live here for years, have integrated, and speak German. I do say that I have German family, but as I am not them, I would not really call myself German as I was not raised here.
43
41
u/Count2Zero Feb 06 '23
I call myself German.
I was born in the USA, and moved to Germany when I was 25. I've lived here (Germany for 12 years, then Switzerland for 10 years, and back to Germany since 10 years), and was granted German citizenship in 2019.
When people start talking shit about Americans, then look at me, I just smile and say, "Ich bin Deutscher".
→ More replies (1)36
u/LyyC Feb 06 '23
Your situation is very different, though. I'd always recognize someone who made an effort to learn the language, culture, etc. and especially someone who lived here for so long, as German. But OP neither visited Germany nor does he speak the language even in the slightest. There is no background besides a piece of paper and that the father was born (not even raised) here.
3
u/MisterBroda Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23
I agree - when we look at the "feeling" and not the legal view.
Having no connections to something besides a paper and DNA versus actually being integrated/assimilated into a culture are vastly different things
Just because you give up US citizenship (like for tax reasons) does not mean your identity isn't american anymore.
Same goes for people migrating here and not willing so integrate/assimilate which leads to very bad outcomes. Some of them might have a german passport, but they are certainly not part of german society nor do they want to. Of course not all, there is a wide range of varieties. You get what I mean
Edit: I want to add that OP likely does not have to worry too much. If he is a pleasant guy, most people won't care or overlook the misstep
30
u/yami_no_ko Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23
Would other Germans think it’d be weird or would I look stupid if I called myself German?
Given that the usual understanding of being german includes being used to live here and speak the language, this would indeed sound a bit odd to me. Not that I actually care, but citizenship does just play a minor role to me if at all. Usually "being German" would correlate with knowing the language and everyday life of at least one place in Germany.
28
u/Jodelfreak Feb 06 '23
Yes, they will consider it weird as you dont speak German and will not have adopted any specific German habits.
→ More replies (3)
50
u/MobofDucks Pottmensch im Exil in Berlin Feb 06 '23
If you don't speak good german, please don't call yourself german to germans. The language is the single most important requirement for "germanness" as perceived by germans. So to answer your question: Yes, you would look an american that has absolutely no idea what they are talking about.
→ More replies (8)
23
u/AlHazard33 Niedersachsen Feb 06 '23
For most Germans this would be indeed a bit weird, even though you are a citizen and thus you are German of course. Without having lived here and without speaking the language, most wouldn't see any reason to call you German just because of your father.
This would change of course after learning the language, living here, identifying with Germany (including Grundgesetz) and being integrated into German society.
6
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 06 '23
Thank you and hopefully one day I will get to visit
15
u/flapping_thundercunt Feb 06 '23
I have a German passport, speak German, but barely ever lived there. I don't even call myself German. Just don't, you sound ridiculous.
10
u/Blakut Feb 06 '23
i feel like the most powerful indicator of belonging to a nation, in europe, is speaking the language, sharing their culture, and ofc having their citizenship, in this order.
2
u/ShahanSasha Australia Feb 06 '23
dont forget ethnic heritage
→ More replies (1)10
u/Ree_m0 Feb 06 '23
Ethnic heritage is a weird concept, if you bring that up in Germany as a reason for why someone would be German, most people will probably give you a concerned look.
20
u/StalledData Feb 06 '23
I‘m of a similar descent and spent most my life until now in the US, and from my point of view, you can’t call yourself „German“ until you’ve actually lived here, payed taxes/been apart of the system, and can speak the language at a professional level. Knowing a few words or understanding basic conversation isn’t enough. Like others pointed out, you are 100% an American* (*of German descent and with a German passport). Most Germans will find it insanely cringe if you tell them you are a German and then speak like a kindergartner or can’t at all.
1
u/Unkn0wn_666 Feb 06 '23
Well I wouldn't go so far as to say that it needs to be at a professional level, most Germans don't have a C2 level of German, just like Americans don't have that for English, but you definitely should be at a B2 level
10
u/Pattt2602 Feb 06 '23
To Germans you are American, because being German doesn't mean you have German roots but it's more of an identity. So in Germany, a person without a German passport or roots, but speaks German flawlessly and acts like a German is more likely to be considered as German than you.
2
u/Landyra Feb 06 '23
This is my understanding, too. I‘ve had a couple of friends when I was younger who were born outside of Germany to foreign parents, but moved here at 0-3 years old and lived in Germany ever since - I always considered them to be as German as me.
They were raised here, had the same experiences as me, spoke the language as good as me (with the cool perk of also speaking another language),… but I never considered them to be Italian or Brazilian just because they ethnically were, since they didn’t grow up there. They were always Germans with roots from (…) to me.
In a similar fashion someone with a German passport who‘s never lived in Germany would be a (… country they grew up in) with German roots to me.
16
u/Kitchen-Pen7559 Feb 06 '23
No, you should not call yourself German. Not just to Germans, not to anyone.
8
u/LifePineapple Feb 06 '23
Only an American would call themselves "half German" while neither speaking the language nor being born or raised in Germany.
I wouldn't call it offensive, i think that's just the stupid things Americans make up to look more cultured.
Don't call yourself German to anyone - because you aren't.
1
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 06 '23
I’m an actual citizen of Germany though
2
u/kuldan5853 Feb 06 '23
As plenty of people have told you, being "German" does not equal "holding German citizenship".
→ More replies (1)
6
u/AH2Xtreme Feb 06 '23
You're American.
Why would you say you're German?
I've lived in Germany for 10 years, speak the language, have a wife and kids, a house, Car, motorcycle and job here and I'll still not call myself German because I'm not.
10
u/Sexy-Dumbledore Feb 06 '23
My dad was German, born in Germany. I was born in England so I tell people I am British.
I think you should probably stick to telling folks you're American.
Sure it's an interesting bit of origin from your father's side but if you didn't live there, don't speak the language and never lived the culture then it may sound a bit cringey telling people you're a German.
1
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 06 '23
Good to know thanks! I genuinely don’t know and I’m just wondering what’s proper. It’s not that deep to me lol
5
u/Sexy-Dumbledore Feb 06 '23
At least you asked though! I used to date an American guy who had a Scottish father and he used to tell everyone he was Scottish and they all made fun of him behind his back because he'd never stepped foot on Scottish soil before and had a very very strong American accent. 😅
I live in Germany now, married to a German, my child is German and I speak German but I still proudly tell everyone I'm British.
It's cool that your dad is German, whilst you may be an American at heart, it may be nice to visit the land where your father was born and experience some of the culture! Put that citizenship to good use 😊
1
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 07 '23
Growing up around Boston, almost everyone considers themselves Irish or Italian and it’s so cringe. The difference between myself and them is I actually hold citizenship. From an American standpoint if you hold American citizenship you are American, even if you were born to American parents overseas and never lived here you are still considered American to us. Europeans just have a different outlook which is good to know so in the future I don’t offend anyone or look stupid lol
6
u/Angulaaaaargh Feb 06 '23
You're an american that happens to have a german passport. Calling yourself "a german" doesn't make any sense at all in your current situation. This "I'm an X because my grandmother was born in X" thing is something weird that americans do, not europeans.
5
u/Ree_m0 Feb 06 '23
To the German government, you'll be 100% German. To German people, you'll be an American und who happens to have a German passport
5
u/Korimuzel Feb 06 '23
You've been born and raised in the USA. You've never been in Germany and even your father, your only german relative, grew up as an american
Tell me again why you should be considered german, please
4
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 06 '23
Well I’m a dual citizen and by German law I am German.
4
u/Korimuzel Feb 06 '23
Being a citizen doesn't make you a german
Being german is about culture: food, traditions, "common sense" and "appropriate behaviour", festivities
Let's make an example: how do you behave when a friend of yours has a birthday party?
8
u/SufficientMacaroon1 Germany Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23
Maybe think of it this way:
In a conversation, if i mention me being german, or ask someone from where they are, i am not trying to tell/learn a random fact about myself/them, but to convery/recieve something of informational value about me/the other person. In normal conversation, you genetic makeup has no informational value. Where you live and/or grew up, though, has, because it gives intel about what we can talk about.
Imagine i am in London and meet someone (lets call them A) in a hostel. I am german (citizenship, born and raised, still live there), but i also have some scottish ancestry. However, other than knowing of this scottish ancestor of mine and generally liking the land and people there, i have no ties to that region. If i tell A i am german, they know they can talk about their visit to Cologne, or how they recently watched "das Leben der Anderen", and i will be able to say something about it and keep the conversation going. Now, imagine i were to tell them i am scottish. They might say something about their teip to Aberdeen, or try to joke with me about the historical inacurancies of "Highlander", and i have nothing to answer.
Now, lets imagine that you are A. We meet in a hostel in London and you tell me you are german. Picking a random thought that might lead to a good conversation, i mention that i recently watched one of the new "Wetten, dass...?" shows. Do you think it was a good idea to bring them back, or is it a format that ran it's course and should be left alone and remembered as the good thing it once was?
So, what do you think? Are we going to have a good conversation, or will my question be followed by awkward silence before you explain that you are a citizen, but have never lived in germany nor speak german, and as auch have no idea what i am talking about?
Edit:that does not mean that you should never mention your citizenship status to a german. If i tell you i am german, it would be totally legit if you were to tell about your father and grandpatents emigrating your dual citizenship,your general interest in the country despite never been there, etc.. Because this gives both a topic to talk about (germany in general, maybe recs by me for visits, you telling me about german ancestry communities in the US, etc), but without making me falsly think we have the same knowledge baseline about germany due to both of us living there.
4
5
u/glowinthedarkstick Feb 06 '23
It’s not citizenship, it’s language, culture, ways of expressing yourself, food habits and tastes, the way Germans count on one hand etc etc etc. nothing about you is German from a German’s perspective.
5
u/Moosmaier Feb 06 '23
you are not german, and every german would think that its very weird that you even consider yourself german. this whole heritage thing that the us has is nonexistent here.
6
u/gelastes Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23
People here often get a knee-jerk reaction about this. Part of it is legit, as the idea of being 'part German' because some ancestor was German is close to "I'm German by blood", which is a concept that, let's say went out of fashion about 70 years ago.
But the urge to shun a mindset of a national race can lead to gatekeeping nationality. You don't just have a Great-Grandad who had a German shepherd dog. You have a German dad, you have German citizenship. So you can call yourself German. You might want to say half-German or German on your father's side to avoid discussions about true German-ness.
6
6
u/Quitscheschwamm Feb 06 '23
If you're not born in Germany, not raised in Germany, don't speak german and don't live in Germany you're not German. You're American with German ancestors. That's not better or worse than just being American or German. It is what it is. If you want to explore your german history: nice, go for it! If not: just as good.
2
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 06 '23
It’s a bit different from my perspective just because I have dual citizenship. If it was the opposite, no one would have a problem saying you are American even if you weren’t raised here or didn’t even speak English. If you have American citizenship, you are an American to us
5
u/Whynotdragon Feb 06 '23
USA is a bit different after all. its generally built with immigrants and most people one way or another have german ancestors. or dutch. or french. so nobody is really american but everyone is american if you have a passport - no strong cultural definition, pure citizenship perspective
for europeans its more of ethnicity/culture/nationality background rather than just citizenship. it is combination of language, heritage, culture, conditions you grew up in and etc.
when Id get a chance to apply for german citizenship - Ill get passport but I wont call myself german as its not my cultural background.
→ More replies (2)6
u/kuldan5853 Feb 06 '23
Tell that to all the Latinos that might have citizenship but get bullied everyday..
3
u/thesmellaftertherain Feb 06 '23
No, you're not german in the social sense (yet, I might add). But you have dual citizenship and that's something you can absolutely tell and people will understand. Du hast "doppelte Staatsbürgerschaft" oder bist "zwei-staatlich" 😁
3
3
u/akiroraiden Bayern Feb 06 '23
i wouldnt consider you german tbh. You arent german cuturally, dont live here, dont speak the language.. The whole "by blood" really doesnt matter to anyone but americans.
I used to not consider myself german despite being german by blood and knowing the language cause i was born somewhere else. Only after coming here and living a few years, working and buying a home did i really start considering myself one.
3
u/Theophrastus_Borg Feb 06 '23
Do you have any knowledge of german culture? If not it would definitely be weird.
3
u/rainforest_runner Württemberg Feb 06 '23
I’ve been calling myself with my nationality, despite me living nearly half of my life abroad, and now a third of which, living in Germany. Technically one more year and a test, and I can be naturalized as a German, at which point, I’ll probably call myself German (einige Kollegen sind immer noch überrascht, dass ich kein Deutscher bin…)
What you’re impying there is a horribly American stereotype that as far as I can tell, Europeans loathe (and me too, kinda) about yourselves, when you say „yeah I‘m Irish, because my great Grandfather came from Ireland“, even though until now you’ve never set foot there nor knowing the culture or speak gaelic.
We‘d respect you a hell lotta more if you‘re to say blatantly you‘re American, but you have these roots, and would like to get in touch with it further.
1
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 06 '23
I do say that I’m American though. Having a dual citizenship to another country is a bit weird when I’ve never even been there
2
u/rainforest_runner Württemberg Feb 06 '23
If it‘s on a legal thing, regarding the dual citizenship, I hear you. That‘d be a bit harder to explain or to say directly. I’d also have the same difficulty if I were to gain both passports (alas, my gov doesn’t allow that)
But I guess if I were to be definitive on when do you exactly say „I‘m a German/American/Irish“ is to whichever you‘re culturally fitting with (and how others perceive you as well…)
Honestly I feel a bit weird at times to say that I am an Indonesian as well nowadays, especially when they‘d then ask something like „Oh what kinda food do you miss? Can you teach me to cook some of the street food? Where do you advise I should travel there? Oh I’ve been to Bali. How was that? What don‘t you like about your government, what could be better?“ and I‘m like…I‘ve been out of the country for more than a decade, I don‘t feel culturally close there, and I only have childhood and late teenager memories to guide me. I feel that my identity is more European and even German nowadays.
3
u/Bunnybun93 Feb 06 '23
Okay, my question is why would you want to call yourself German? Americans have a different understanding when it comes to their heritage. When I was in the US and someone heard that I was German it was always like "oh I'm German as well" and then I found out their great great grandmother was German. So that's a little weird but based on what you said, you're half German but born and raised in the US. So if someone would ask you I would just say exactly that. You're American with but half German.
2
u/Korimuzel Feb 06 '23
This.
Where is even the need to say that? Who asked?
Americans have a really hard lesson to learn: nobody gives a fuck around you. No one is Special, everyone has a story and problems
1
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 07 '23
Yes, I’m asking because I don’t know. I’m not like most Americans who claim to be something they aren’t but the difference is I actually hold citizenship. So I’m not sure if it’s proper to say “I’m half American and half German” to other Germans or Europeans. It’s not that deep but in America it is. People will ask you about where your grandparents and family lineage quite often. I find it very strange and cringe myself.
2
u/Bunnybun93 Feb 07 '23
I get it. Maybe there is a struggle when it comes to your indenty. My husband is American as well and has also a lot of German heritage as well as Polish. It seems to be a big deal for Americans to kind of put a label on it. But you actually have German citizenship and one of your parents is German so in my opinion, you're American but also half German. I consider my kids half German, half American. Since they grow up in Germany I think they will identify themselves as German one day.
1
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 08 '23
I actually don’t think that deep of it. A lot of Americans who have great grandparents or whatever from Ireland or Italy are really obnoxious and proud of it, I find that personally weird and a bit cringe. Growing up for us, our family was never patriotic or anything towards our nationality, it was just kind of there if that makes sense. Now that I’m older I do regret not learning more about German culture, making an effort to learn the language etc.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/BoutKabouter Feb 06 '23
Not German but as a western european I would consider you as 100% American
3
u/wurzlsep Austria Feb 06 '23
I mean, since you don't know the language, and never have lived there, and conclusively don't know a thing about their customs and culture, yes, you will look stupid. And I personally think it's disrespectful.
3
u/-rgg Feb 06 '23
Would other Germans think it’d be weird or would I look stupid if I called myself German?
Yes. Simple as that.
3
u/NewtLow7679 Feb 06 '23
A non German-speaking person is referring to oneself as German. Does that sound weird to you?.
5
u/Wentz_ylvania Feb 06 '23
You're American. I have dual citizenship as well, but I visit Germany to see family, and I speak German at a B2 level.
I present myself as American. This concept of claiming a nationality is strange to most Europeans. At the same time, I understand where that comes from due to being raised in America. We like our family lineage and our ties to where our ancestors came from. The issue is that most folks are several generations removed from the culture and have fully assimilated to the American way of life.
I'm in the process of transferring to Germany, and I am fully aware that even though I hold a German passport, I will always be viewed as an American.
Protip: Don't go to Germany and say "I'm German" in perfect English. You will get some odd stares. Nothing wrong with saying you're American, just don't be obnoxious about it. Also if you want to look like you fit in, don't forget your socks and sandals, and put a towel on the chair at the pool no later than 6 am to claim your spot :)
3
u/niqql Feb 06 '23
I've been in the US for an exchange year and it wast rare that someone told me they were 'german'. When I asked them something like: 'Cool, where in Germany are you from and how long ago did you move to the US?' they backed away and said that some of their relatives were from Germany.
In my opinion for someone to be considered German they had to have lived here some time. They have to know the culture and speak at least some German words. Well that and more.
I've lived in the US, I have relatives in the US, I know that. Culture and I speak native English. Still I'm not a American.
→ More replies (2)
2
u/buyeroflastresort Feb 06 '23
I’m same like you living in Germany. It’s the best of both worlds. You are when you need to be you aren’t when you don’t.
2
u/JR_0507 Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23
In General, it is bit i appropriate to claim certain nationality but not even speaking the language or know the culture.
Beside, i know number of people who have passport of different nationality. For example, i can soon apply for German passport by myself and even if i will decide to do it and get it, it will not make me German.
2
2
u/whiteraven4 USA Feb 06 '23
One of my friends is American, has German citizenship through his dad who left Germany as an adult (my friend was actually born in Europe) and speaks fluent German and he still doesn't really consider himself German. Maybe that'll change after he's lived here longer.
2
u/BavarianMango Feb 06 '23
Technically, yes, you would be German. If you ended up breaking the law in Germany, you wouldn't get the privilege of running to the American consulate for assistance. Whether or not Germans "see" you as German depends I think a lot on how you look like. Even Germans born and raised in Germany struggle to be seen as Germans only because one or both of their parents aren't white (and I speak this from personal experience as a dual-citizen mixed-race person living in Germany).
Ironically, I had an ex-boyfriend who along with his sister proudly insisted on calling himself American only because they were born there to German parents (and no, they weren't raised there either). Another classmate of mine ended up acted the same way about being "half-American" although he too was only born there and only went back on vacations. I think this phenomenon goes both ways.
2
2
2
u/Dertzuk Feb 06 '23
If I compare your situation to a lot of "austro/croatian" friends of mine I'd say you can call yourself both. Really depends on what you want to call yourself. You are not as german as a german living in germany but you're definitely more german than another american living in america
2
u/nickles72 Feb 06 '23
I would not call it German personally. I just looked it up however, and German citizenship went by bloodline, not place of birth for a long time. (in 2000 they changed the law)
If your Father actually had German citizenship and you were born before 2000 you can talk to the German embassy and maybe you actually are German. I am not a lawyer.
2
u/thegerams Feb 06 '23
How about “American with a German passport”? Or… “half German half American”? Usually people in Europe refer to themselves as half this half that. If you say “German” people will assume you actually speak the language and have lived there.
2
u/Mr___Medic Nordrhein-Westfalen Feb 06 '23
Well, with dual citizenship you are German and American, so it is correct to call yourself German in Germany, but to avoid confusion I would mention your history. Otherwise people might think you mean that in the sense of your ancestors came to the usa centuries ago on a boat from germany.
2
u/Wodaunderthebridge Feb 06 '23
Call yourself german and join us, Bruder. Lets watch Stackenblochen and have the wurst time of our life.
2
u/NeilLikesNoodles United Kingdom Feb 06 '23
You'll probably fall into the boat of the Americans who walk around Scotland with a kilt on and talk about "clans".
All jokes a side, you're American born and raised. Until you live in Germany and work there for a certain amount of time or have been naturalised, I'd find it hard to describe yourself as one, especially if you do not speak German at all.
2
2
u/dyslexicassfuck Feb 06 '23
I would say you are an American of German decent with a German citizenship.
Culture and Language are huge part I would say.
My American BIL calls him self Irish I doubt any one in the family in last three or four generations or even further back has been to Irland. But Americans often would still say they are Italian, Irish ect. I find that interesting
2
u/shaohtsai Feb 06 '23
People are both socialized and racialized differently according the their ethnic background, where they were born, where they were raised, what citizenship they hold. A country and its people may claim people as their own in different circumstances, but one factor that is somehow common among European nations is that they do not claim those that like to claim them.
Not being born here is not the end of it. But not having the same shared experiences by not being raised here or not being immersed in the culture, not having spent any significant amount of time here, and then not speaking the language does make Europeans shun away from claiming you back. They're less inclined to have the "one of us" mentality without those markers of cultural belonging.
2
u/NixNixonNix I spent a week there the other night Feb 06 '23
German to me is someone who spent a great parts of their formative years here and speaks the language. I would consider you American and would be surprised if you'd call yourself German.
2
u/sadsatan1 Nordrhein-Westfalen Feb 06 '23
You are not German. You are American with German descent.
2
u/dreaming_jellyfish Feb 06 '23
I know someone, who has an asian background but is third generation in Germany and doesnt even speak the language of the grandparents / greatgrandparents / ancestors ... However you name it.
This person is totally german to me.
2
u/HorridosTorpedo Feb 06 '23
There's a thing that seems to be uniquely American, that the rest of the world hates and it's proclaiming yourself to be another nationality, based on the fact that some distant relation came from whichever country. "Oh, I'm Irish, my great grandparents came from Dun-eagle". No. You aren't. Just ask anyone.
2
u/torpak Feb 06 '23
That's how the German law works. It's not your fault, it's this way.
When you make being German part of your identity, most people would assume that you have at least some familiarity with the culture or language but I don't think anyone would be offended.
The question that strikes me is why do you want to?
You obviously have the legal right to call yourself German and even to move to Germany but unless you want to do the second, why do the first?
2
u/karenosmile Feb 06 '23
Use and enjoy both!
Mess with people's minds.
I, a born Ami living in Germany, loves answering with "Stuttgart" when asked where I'm from.
My German husband did the same trick when we lived in the States. It was hilarious to see people's faces when he said, "Knoxville" with a German accent.
2
u/Wasted_46 Feb 06 '23
Germany will think you are an American. If you insist you're German thy will think you are an idiot American.
2
2
u/SpinachSpinosaurus Germany Feb 06 '23
I never get what's up with people from the US, showing Off their ancestory like rare pokemon cards..... 🤣
Wow,Somebody happened to be born by people of a specific origin who also happened to be born by people of similiar Origin. Amazing/s
You're not German. You can say: one of my parents/ ancestors originally came from Germany, but that's it. You're Like saying "I speak German!" And then only know a few words. Nein. Nein, tust du nicht 🤣
2
u/Financial_Two_3323 Feb 06 '23
I'll try a slightly different approach:
If I talk to somebody and say "I am ___" this is supposed to tell them something useful about me.
That might be something about my character, my mindset, my experiences that shaped me, my hobbies, interests, knowledge, personal situation. Like, something that makes me me.
In your case, "I'm German!" ticks non of the boxes. So, which useful information about yourself would you like to convey by saying this?
Besides: I lived abroad and still have to travel frequently; when this topic comes up, I normally prefer to say "I'm from Germany" instead of "I'm German". And the former doesn't even require citizenship...
2
u/FoxTrooperson Feb 06 '23
I think your task failed successfully...
You are american. You have never visited germany, nore do you speak the language. So funny looks and questions may occur.
If you would visit Germany and tell people your father left Germany as a child and you want to reconnect with your families roots, it would be totally fine.
For example: My last name is dutch. My family originated in the Netherlands. I speak dutch. But I would never ever consider myself dutch. I'm more like a "Wannabe-Dutchman", whenever I can talk myself out of something speaking dutch I'm dutch. 😆
I hope it's somewhat understandable what I mean.
And of course, duck those idiots which think of people staying foreigners forever.
2
u/hot4halloumi Feb 06 '23
I can only speak as an Irish person… it’s very annoying when people from the states say they’re Irish when they have never lived here, we’re born in the states, with American accents and nothing beyond some Irish blood and a surname. You can say you’re part German… or have a German parent, or descendant…
1
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 06 '23
I understand what your saying by that, I have an Irish grandparent from my moms side but I do not call myself “Irish” like most Americans would. It’s a bit different perspective for me though because i am a dual citizen. If I held dual Irish citizenship, could I not call myself “Irish” in Ireland? Would Irish people be offended by that?
→ More replies (7)
2
u/Rice_Nugget Feb 07 '23
Short answer:Yes, we would find it weird (atleast Me anf the ppl i know would)
4
Feb 06 '23
I think this segues into something that’s funny. Americans being proud of their country but trying to claim they’re from literally everywhere else
I’m Italian 🇮🇹 I’m Irish ☘️ Polish brat ❤️ 🇵🇱 Mutt 🐶
2
u/gregorio_sanchez Feb 06 '23
Yes. It's very stupid. Genetically you might have german genes. But you are 100% American. I have genes from Spain, Portugal, Wales, Norway, etc. And I don't identify myself by any of those nationalities as I wasn't born and raised there.
2
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 06 '23
I do have dual citizenship though so I wasn’t sure if Europeans viewed it differently with citizenship. If you were to hold American citizenship for example even though you weren’t raised or didn’t speak English, we’d still consider you American.
2
u/LyyC Feb 06 '23
I wouldn't feel offended / insulted if you introduced yourself as German to me. I don't think that most people would. But I would feel that it is kind of a weird claim. Because besides that your father happened to have lived here for a few years, you seem to have absolutely nothing to do with Germany and its culture.
Maybe I'd change the phrasing a bit. I'd say
• 'I am American with partly German roots'
• or 'I'm American, with (dual) German citizenship' (weird thing to say as an introduction, but whatever floats your boat)
But being of a specific nationality is more than just a piece of paper or having XX ancestors. (Admittedly, the claim to be of XX nationality gets weirder the further away the ancestors are from you. But still).
Maybe you could try and imagine it the other way around? When people claim they're American, without having been there even once, without speaking the language even. How would you feel about that claim? Another example, people who are so obsessed with certain countries, like Japan or Korea, that they claim they're of said nationality, without having been there even once. They take their grandparents or any family member that happens to be from there as a ticket to validate their 'weeaboo'ness'. It just feels weird to natives to the verge of being cringe in a certain way. For what other reason would you make a claim about something like that other than to make yourself look more interesting to others? Nationality has to do with your heart and your culture, it is not an accessory.
2
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 06 '23
I’m just wondering because I have a few German friends and do meet Germans from time to time traveling. Im obviously very fascinated with German culture and whatnot but it’s very hard to talk about Germany with other Americans because they just associate it with the recent history
→ More replies (1)3
u/SuperPursuitMode Feb 06 '23
You have German friends, a German father and you *claim* to be very fascinated with German culture.
So why did you never learn the German language, even a little?
So which culture exactly are you fascinated with? Some translated into English second hand (or worse) account of culture you heard of from others?
How would you even experience German culture if you come here and can't understand it?
Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, but you seem enamoured with the idea, with the concept you have of German culture in your mind, not the real thing.
2
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 07 '23
I didn’t meet German friends until later in life in my early 20s. Growing up having close family from Germany was…challenging. I’m not sure about the rest of the world but Americans usually associate Germany with the war, which follows by quite ignorant and awkward questions if you can imagine.
From what my father told me and what I understand is, Germans aren’t very nationalistic (at least my family isn’t) so it was never taught to us to be “proud” to be half German or anything, it was more of a “oh yeah you are a dual citizen of Germany so do what you will of it”. I guess I’m at the point in my life where I am intrigued and fascinated by my German citizenship. Also some regret I never attempted to use it when I was younger or learn the language
2
u/MadMaid42 Feb 06 '23
This is something what I never understood: why Americans identify so huge with a nation they never been and don’t know a single bit more than the bare minimum and some stereotypes? Why are Americans be like „ohh I’m German, France, Greek, Russian, Brazil and Japanese“ even while their Family didn’t even traveled outside the US for more than 3 generations?
No you’re no German. You’re American. The best you could be were „I’m half American and half German, but I never been in Germany“ if that country/ culture had at least any type influence on your life, like having two first languages or something like that.
2
u/GameOfWu1f Feb 06 '23
You have more claim to call yourself germen than 90% of US-"Germans" but in germany you would still be seen as nothing more than an american
2
u/FaustinoSantos Feb 06 '23
If you have citizenship you are a German for the authorities. So at least politically you are German.
But regarding ethnicity you are only half Germen, unless both your parents are Germans, then you would be 100% German as well.
It is only culturally that you are not a German. Meaning that you don't have the same cultural background as people raised in Germany. But you can aquire it if you live long enough in Germany and become well integrated.
Speaking of "mindset". That is BS. A lot of Germans don't have German mindset and they are even oppose to German mindset. Nobody say they are not German though.
I am not German but said that all I would say you are German since the authorities who determinde that recognise you are German. And you are half German if ethnicity matters to you.
Many foreigers who move to a land with a culture they love become more attached to the local culture and thinking than many locals themselves. Yet, one might even say that such kind of foreign are more Brazilian than Brazilians or more French than French people. So why not German?
Everything else is just stupid segregation.
2
u/konnichikat German expat in NZ Feb 06 '23
It's such an American thing to always feel the need to disclose one's nationality/ancestry. Nobody gives a flying leap. Literally every single American I've met (and I lived in the States, so that's a lotta Americans) mentions their great-great-great-grand-whatever was Belgian/Chinese/Indonesian/Chilean/whatever.
In my eyes you're not (a) German, but that's just my personal opinion, so certainly nothing to care about.
1
u/FrigginMasshole Feb 06 '23
Spot on with the Americans with ancestry and such, however with my situation I was just wondering if it was ignorant, insulting or cringe because I do hold citizenship. Most Americans don’t
1
1
u/LOB90 Feb 06 '23
There was a post here recently from a guy who was born in Germany, has a German citizenship and speaks German fluently but feels as if he is not fully accepted as German due to his cultural background. Juast as an FYI.
I personally would recommend to just say your dad was German but you gre up in the states. Let people make of that what they will.
1
u/jablan Feb 06 '23
"Hi, I am a German citizen but I was never in DE and I don't speak German. Am I a German"
/r/germany: NEIN!
"Hi, my grandparents came from Turkey, my parents were born here, I was born here and I speak fluent German. Am I a German?"
/r/germany: Well yes, but actually no...
1
u/Sionnacha Feb 06 '23
Like others have said, the being a certain nationality is not just about having the passport, but also knowing the language and knowing things that only someone who grew up or at least lived a long time in that country would know.
e.g. I have a South African friend who has a Belgian passport because his mother is from there, but he considers himself South African as that's where he grew up and that's what he knows. He would never dream of saying he's Belgian.
1
u/tjhc_ Feb 06 '23
You are a German citizen so I don't see a problem in claiming to be German. But I would always add that you got the citizenship but were born and raised in the US.
If you don't, you may get questions you have no idea how to answer and start feeding into a stereotype. And we don't need another person with fake German accent telling people how stereotypical Germans are. And for god's sake leave any notion of race out of your introductions.
1
1
u/Samibee4e Feb 06 '23
As a German here born and raised.. I would just think its weird. Flattering... but weird. Most people I've talked to who say they are German says its just ancestry which is cool. They try to push it off as more until they realize they are actually talking to a German and then they just stop talking and the rest of the conversation is weird and fake and just ugh.. This has happened soooo much to me. Other Germans I've come across here in the US we just start speaking deutsch to each other right away and you know we were both born and raised in Deutschland. Its just kinda obvious. If you weren't born and raised, I wouldn't flat out call myself that but maybe add I'm German by decent ya know.. If you aren't even related by decent I would just say I know how to speak German or I find its very fascinating and studied it in school/college or something idk. Heard that a lot as well. I know a bit of French but I would never go around saying I'm French or know how to speak it fluently because quit simply I feel like I would just make an ass out of myself haha
1
u/Polygnom Feb 06 '23
The best way to introduce yourself would be "I am technically German, but I don't speak it and have never been there".
or "I am technically German, but was born and raised in the US.".
That way, there is no misunderstandings. because many people typically associate some connection to the country with calling yourself that way. Speaking the language is one of those things. Knowing the culture is another one. You have neither, so technically you are German by citizenship, but actually, you cannot really talk about Germany because you simply have no experience whatsoever.
1
u/LilliCGN Nordrhein-Westfalen Feb 06 '23
In the US you would get along with calling yourself a German, but somewhere else, especially in Germany you would be laughed at, even when you were moving to Germany right now, your beliefs and whole socialisation is US American and not German. Here we don’t have this blood-line fetish, unless you’re a Nazi and proud of being “Arian” Eich is ridiculous in itself. “I have German ancestors” or “technically I’m half German” would be okay, but here actually no one would care as long as you were unable to speak German mostly fluent.
1
u/MangelaErkel Feb 06 '23
When ppl claim they are german in america, they are talking about descendance.
In germany it is quite different. I for myself think the germans view "being german" in a quite racist way.
Germans with arab parents are often not seen as real germans, As well as african or asian people.
I think this is quite bigoted but yes the populus sees being german as a way of life and people who come here have to "integrate"
So in short people would think you are crazy for saying you are german.
1
u/Lozmmm Feb 06 '23
Sure, call yourself German. It’s fine, if you are in a conversation with someone German in English, saying “my family is German and I’m a dual citizen” is enough and people almost always really don’t care too much. The people who are addicted to identity of blood and language are just too obsessed. I would always encourage learning some German though, it’s fun!
3
u/resurgences NRW 🏵️ Feb 06 '23
The people who are addicted to identity of blood and language are just too obsessed
This is two different topics that yield completely different survey results. As far as language is concerned, if you don't care about that for citizenship and national identity you are part of the 4 % of the German population. The remaining 96 % disagree with you.
Sure, call yourself German. It’s fine, if you are in a conversation with someone German in English, saying “my family is German and I’m a dual citizen”
Calling yourself German and saying you have dual citizenship via your German parents is not the same
→ More replies (1)
1
u/ungoot Feb 06 '23
German constitution Artical 116-1:
Unless otherwise provided by a law, a German within the meaning of this Basic Law is a person who possesses German citizenship or who has been admitted to the territory of the German Reich within the boundaries of 31 December 1937 as a refugee or expellee of German ethnic origin or as the spouse or descendant of such person.
So basically if you have a German citizenship you are German in the eyes of the law. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.
Here is a link:
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_gg/englisch_gg.html#p0729:~:text=(1)%20Unless%20otherwise,of%20such%20person.
2
u/kuldan5853 Feb 06 '23
we are talking about how Germans would perceive him though, not the Government - both stances are completely different.
2
624
u/JASN_DE Bayern Feb 06 '23
To many, having citizenship is only partially what it means to be "German". Especially the "not speaking German" part will certainly not be in your favour.